April, 2025 - Fort Madison, Iowa
The Fort Madison High School auditorium is packed to capacity with a diverse cross-section of Iowans. Many arrived hours early to secure seats. On stage are two comfortable armchairs positioned at a conversational angle. Dr. Marcus Bennett, in his signature white shirt and dark-rimmed glasses, sits in one chair with his notepad, while Senator Chuck Grassley, age 91, occupies the other. Behind them, a large screen displays "The Couch Room: Live in Iowa" with the local university's logo. The atmosphere is charged with anticipation, as constituents have come with pressing questions for their long-serving senator.
Dr. Bennett: "Good afternoon and welcome to this special edition of The Couch Room, coming to you live from Fort Madison, Iowa. I'm Dr. Marcus Bennett, and today we're having an important conversation about age, cognition, and public service with Senator Chuck Grassley, who has represented Iowa in the United States Senate since 1981. Thank you, Senator, for inviting me to host this public discussion. This is an honor and really great to meet people here in Iowa during the show setup, sponsored by the university. I was especially interested to hear political opinions on all of those important topics brought up then and hopefully we can get to them tonight. I am also here to provide a psychological context to these issues for those interested."
Senator Grassley: "Thank you, Dr. Bennett. I'm glad to be here too. I've been doing town halls across Iowa for 45 years. I've had 396 county meetings during just the four years of the Biden administration alone. So I'm always happy to meet with constituents and hear their concerns."
Dr. Bennett: "Senator, I'd like to start with some basic questions about your service. You've been in the Senate for 43 years now, and at 91, you're currently the oldest serving senator in U.S. history. Could you share with us what your typical day looks like, and how you maintain the stamina for such a demanding job?"
Senator Grassley: "Well, I start each day at 4:00 AM with a run—not as fast as I used to, but I still do it. I'm in my office by 6:00 AM reviewing briefing materials and preparing for committee hearings. I typically have meetings throughout the day with constituents, colleagues, and staff. I try to be in bed by 9:00 PM to get enough rest. I've always believed in hard work and discipline, and that hasn't changed."
Consistent routines can be protective factors for cognitive health in aging. Research in cognitive aging suggests that:
However, the cognitive demands of high-level decision-making roles may exceed the compensatory benefits of these routines as individuals reach advanced age. This creates a challenging balance between experience-based wisdom and processing efficiency.
Dr. Bennett: "Senator, I'd like to move to a topic that's on many people's minds. During the 2024 election cycle, there was significant discussion about President Biden's age and cognitive abilities. You've criticized President Biden on this front. Do you believe that the same standards of cognitive assessment should apply to senators, particularly those in their 90s?"
scene-description - Close-up of Senator Grassley considering the question about cognitive standards.
Senator Grassley: "Well, that's a fair question. I've always said that what matters is whether someone can do the job effectively. There's a difference between the presidency and being a senator. The president is a single executive making critical decisions that affect national security and managing a massive federal bureaucracy. The Senate is a deliberative body where we work collectively."
Dr. Bennett: "But Senator, both roles require complex thinking, information processing, and decision-making under pressure. Let me ask this differently: Would you support a standardized cognitive assessment for all federal officials over a certain age, say 80, regardless of party affiliation or position?"
Senator Grassley: "I think that might set a dangerous precedent. Who decides what's on the test? Who evaluates the results? I trust the voters to make those judgments. They see me in action, they hear me speak, they know if I'm representing them effectively."
Dr. Bennett: "That brings up an interesting point about voter perception versus clinical assessment. We have several audience members with questions. Let's take one now."
Audience Member 1: "Senator Grassley, I'm a constituent from Burlington. I've noticed in your recent town halls that you sometimes have difficulty hearing questions or following complex topics. For example, in Fort Madison recently, you moved on from questions about constitutional issues to talk about other topics. As a voter, how can I be confident that you're able to fully comprehend the intricate details of legislation that affects our lives?"
Cognitive psychologists distinguish between two types of intelligence that age differently:
Legislative work requires both types of intelligence: experienced judgment (crystallized) and nimble problem-solving for new challenges (fluid). The balance between these may shift with age, potentially affecting how older lawmakers approach emerging issues like technology regulation or climate policy.
Senator Grassley: "I appreciate your question. I do have some hearing issues—that's no secret. I wear hearing aids, and sometimes in noisy environments like town halls, it can be challenging. But that doesn't affect my ability to understand legislation or do my job. My staff provides detailed briefings, and I've been dealing with legislative matters for decades, so I understand the issues."
Dr. Bennett: "Senator, hearing difficulty itself isn't necessarily related to cognitive function, but it can affect how you receive and process information. Let me introduce a concept here: Psychologists distinguish between crystallized intelligence—the accumulated knowledge and wisdom that often remains strong with age—and fluid intelligence, which involves processing new information and solving novel problems, which typically declines with age. How do you compensate for potential changes in fluid intelligence when dealing with new, complex issues like AI regulation or cryptocurrency policy?"
Senator Grassley: "I rely on expert staff who are specialists in those areas. No senator, regardless of age, is an expert in everything. That's why we have committee structures and staff. I've always prioritized having knowledgeable people around me. And I make the final decisions based on the values and principles I've held throughout my career."
Dr. Bennett: "Let's take another audience question."
scene-description - Wide shot showing an audience member asking a question as Dr. Bennett and Senator Grassley listen.
Audience Member 2: "Senator, at your recent town hall in Fort Madison, you struggled to address questions about President Trump ignoring Supreme Court orders regarding deportations. When constituents pointed out constitutional concerns, you changed the subject. Are you able to recognize when your party's president is violating the Constitution, and if so, what concrete steps are you taking to uphold your oath of office?"
Senator Grassley: "I believe I did answer those questions. The President of El Salvador is not subject to our US Supreme Court. That's just a fact. As for our constitutional responsibilities, I'm trying to recapture the constitutional authority of Congress through bipartisan legislation. For example, I've introduced a bill to restore congressional oversight of tariffs."
When individuals encounter information that contradicts their existing beliefs or group loyalties, they often experience cognitive dissonance—psychological discomfort that motivates them to reduce this inconsistency. Common dissonance reduction strategies include:
These processes often intensify with age as political identities become more central to self-concept, potentially affecting how older politicians evaluate the actions of members of their own party versus the opposition.
Dr. Bennett: "Senator, what we're seeing here relates to what psychologists call cognitive dissonance—the discomfort that arises when our beliefs conflict with new information or when we apply different standards to similar situations. Many of your constituents are concerned that you applied one standard to President Biden's actions but a different standard to President Trump's actions. How do you ensure that your assessments of constitutional issues remain consistent regardless of which party controls the White House?"
Senator Grassley: "I've been consistent throughout my career. I criticized President Obama when he overreached with executive orders, and I've done the same with both Trump and Biden. My focus has always been on the constitutional separation of powers. But remember, members of Congress have limited tools to check the executive branch. The primary tool is impeachment, which is initiated by the House, not the Senate."
Dr. Bennett: "Let's hear from another audience member."
Audience Member 3: "I'm a retired Army major who now works at the VA in Iowa City. After the recent executive orders affecting federal workers, I've been negatively impacted, along with many other veterans who work for the government. I've reached out to your office multiple times without receiving substantive answers. What are you doing to protect federal workers, particularly veterans, from what many legal experts consider unconstitutional executive actions?"
scene-description - Split screen showing the veterans affairs worker speaking passionately with Senator Grassley listening.
Senator Grassley: "The courts are the arbiters in this situation. Some courts have stood against the president, and some have stood with the president. In the case of probationary employees, the Supreme Court made a decision that the president had the constitutional authority to take those actions."
Audience Member 3: "But what the courts didn't address is that he fired them for cause, which was not true. I find it highly suspect and believe it's illegal, but I haven't heard anything from any of my senators. Do your job!"
Executive function encompasses a set of cognitive processes essential for complex decision-making:
Research has shown that these capabilities typically decline with age, with measurable changes often beginning in the 70s and accelerating in the 80s and beyond. This decline can affect a person's ability to navigate complex political situations that require balancing multiple competing interests and processing large volumes of information.
Dr. Bennett: "Senator, this exchange highlights questions about executive function—cognitive processes that allow us to manage complex information, prioritize competing demands, and make decisions. These functions typically show age-related decline. Given the complexity of issues like federal employment law, international relations, and constitutional questions, what specific strategies do you use to ensure you're able to fully process all relevant information before taking positions on these issues?"
Senator Grassley: "I've always been methodical in my approach. I read briefing materials thoroughly, consult with constitutional experts on my staff, and listen to various perspectives. I've been working on these issues for decades, so I have a strong foundation of knowledge to draw from. And as I've said, no senator is expected to be an expert on everything—we have committee specializations and staff support."
Dr. Bennett: "That brings up an important distinction between individual cognitive abilities and institutional support systems. Let's take another question."
Audience Member 4: "Senator, I'm concerned about your comments on Medicare Advantage. When a constituent pointed out that many seniors are enrolled in Medicare Advantage not because they want it but because insurance companies aggressively market it, you seemed to dismiss this concern. Does your age affect your ability to understand the healthcare challenges facing seniors today, particularly around being manipulated by insurance companies?"
scene-description - Close-up of Senator Grassley responding to questions about Medicare Advantage.
Senator Grassley: "I understand healthcare issues very well. I've been involved in healthcare legislation throughout my career. And regarding Medicare Advantage, the fact is that 50% of seniors have chosen those plans. They must see some benefit in them, or they wouldn't enroll."
Audience Member 4: "But insurance companies are then controlling you, and they'll tell you that you must call in every year because they can change the rules whatever they want to do. It's a ripoff, and we don't want it!"
Anosognosia refers to a lack of awareness or denial of one's own deficits or conditions. Unlike simple denial, which is psychological, anosognosia appears to have neurological origins:
This phenomenon creates particular challenges in leadership contexts because individuals with developing cognitive limitations may be the least able to recognize these changes in themselves, instead attributing difficulties to external factors like staff inadequacies or complex situations.
Dr. Bennett: "Senator, this exchange highlights a concept called anosognosia—the difficulty people sometimes have in accurately assessing their own cognitive abilities. Research suggests that as we age, we may become less aware of changes in our own mental processing. How do you ensure that you have objective measures of your own cognitive function? Do you have trusted advisors who would tell you if they noticed concerning changes?"
Senator Grassley: "My family would certainly tell me if they had concerns. My wife, my children, my grandchildren—they wouldn't hesitate. My staff sees me every day and wouldn't hesitate either. But more importantly, I face the voters every six years. They're the ultimate judges of whether I'm fit to continue serving."
Dr. Bennett: "I'd like to ask about your perspective on age limits. Currently, there are no age limits for Congress, though there are minimum ages to serve. Would you support maximum age limits for federal elected officials?"
Senator Grassley: "No, I wouldn't. I believe that's a decision for voters to make. The Constitution sets the minimum requirements, and beyond that, voters decide who represents them. Different people age differently. Some people might not be effective at 70, while others are sharp well into their 90s. It's about the individual, not the number."
Dr. Bennett: "Let's hear another audience question."
scene-description - Wide shot showing multiple audience members with hands raised to ask questions.
Audience Member 5: "Senator, when you were first elected to the Senate in 1980, social media didn't exist, the internet didn't exist publicly, and artificial intelligence was science fiction. How can someone of your generation possibly understand these technologies well enough to regulate them effectively? Isn't there a point where generational experience becomes a liability rather than an asset?"
The accelerating pace of technological and social change creates distinct challenges for older decision-makers:
These factors can create substantial disparities between older lawmakers and the realities faced by younger constituents, particularly in areas involving technology, social change, and emerging economic systems. This gap may be exacerbated by the tendency of older individuals to rely more heavily on experts within their established networks rather than seeking diverse information sources.
Senator Grassley: "I understand your concern, but remember that no single senator can be an expert on everything. That's why we have committee structures and expert staff. I've made it a point to have younger staff members who understand these technologies and can explain them to me. I may not code software, but I understand the policy implications and the values at stake."
Dr. Bennett: "This raises a psychological concept called generational knowledge gaps. Research shows that people tend to have stronger understanding of systems and technologies that emerged during their formative years. How do you bridge that gap with emerging technologies? And more broadly, do you think there's value in having a Congress that better reflects the age diversity of the country?"
Senator Grassley: "I think diversity of all kinds is valuable in Congress—age, background, profession, you name it. I learn from younger colleagues, and I hope they learn from my experience. As for bridging gaps, I meet regularly with technology companies, read extensively about new developments, and as I mentioned, rely on staff expertise. I don't need to know how to program AI to understand the ethical questions it raises."
Dr. Bennett: "Let's open up for another audience question."
Audience Member 6: "When President Biden was showing signs of aging, many in your party, yourself included, questioned his fitness for office. When you struggle to hear questions or change subjects abruptly in town halls, as witnessed in Fort Madison recently, should voters apply the same standard to you? Isn't this a double standard?"
scene-description - Close-up of Senator Grassley responding to questions about his own cognitive fitness.
Our judgments about others' cognitive abilities are rarely neutral or objective. They are influenced by:
These biases are particularly pronounced in political contexts, where partisan identity influences how we perceive and evaluate evidence about leaders' capabilities. This can lead to applying different standards to the cognitive functioning of politicians from our own party versus the opposition.
Senator Grassley: "I think there's a fundamental difference. The presidency is a singular executive position with enormous responsibilities. The president makes life-or-death decisions, commands our armed forces, and manages a massive bureaucracy. A senator is one of 100, working within a deliberative body with numerous checks and balances. The standards should be different because the roles are different."
Dr. Bennett: "Psychologists would call this cognitive consistency—our tendency to maintain coherent beliefs even when faced with contradictory evidence. We often apply different standards to similar situations based on our partisan affiliations. Would you acknowledge that all elderly officials, regardless of party or position, face similar age-related cognitive challenges?"
Senator Grassley: "I'd acknowledge that aging affects everyone, but differently. Some people show significant decline in their 70s, while others remain sharp well into their 90s. That's why individual assessment is important, not blanket age limitations. And yes, I believe we should apply consistent standards, but the presidency is unique in its responsibilities."
Dr. Bennett: "Let's take one final question from the audience."
Audience Member 7: "Senator, you've been in elected office continuously since 1959. That's 66 years. Do you ever reflect on whether your continued service is motivated by duty to constituents—or by habit and a desire to maintain power? How would you even know the difference at this point?"
scene-description - Wide shot of the auditorium as Senator Grassley delivers his final thoughts.
Extended service in a single role can lead to psychological phenomena that affect decision-making:
These processes can make it difficult for long-serving officials to objectively evaluate their continued effectiveness, as separating from a role that has become central to their identity can feel like losing part of themselves. This creates challenges for self-assessment regarding retirement timing.
Senator Grassley: "I continue to serve because I believe I can make a positive difference for Iowans. Every morning when I get up at 4:00 AM, I ask myself, 'What can I do today to make a difference?' If I ever felt I couldn't contribute effectively, I would step aside. But as long as I have the energy, the ability, and the support of voters, I'll continue to work hard for this state."
Dr. Bennett: "Senator, we're talking about what psychologists call identity fusion—when a professional role becomes so integrated with your sense of self that it's difficult to separate the two. After 66 years in elected office, how do you maintain objective self-assessment about your effectiveness and your reasons for continuing to serve?"
Senator Grassley: "I listen to my constituents. I pay attention to whether I'm still able to get things done in a challenging environment. I ask myself whether I'm still making a contribution. And I have family members who wouldn't hesitate to tell me if it was time to step aside. Ultimately, the voters make that decision every six years."
Dr. Bennett: "As we conclude this conversation, I want to thank Senator Grassley for his willingness to engage in this important discussion about age, cognition, and public service. It's a conversation that transcends party lines and applies to all our aging leaders."
Dr. Bennett: "What we've explored today touches on fundamental questions about representation, institutional knowledge, cognitive change, and how we balance experience with adaptability in our democratic system. These are questions we should be asking of all our leaders, regardless of party affiliation."
Senator Grassley: "I appreciate the opportunity to have this discussion. I've always believed in accountability and transparency, which is why I hold town halls in all 99 Iowa counties every year. I respect the questions from constituents today, even the tough ones. That's how democracy is supposed to work."
Dr. Bennett: "Thank you, Senator Grassley, and thank you to our audience for your thoughtful questions and participation. Good evening from Fort Madison, Iowa."
As the event concludes, audience members linger, continuing discussions among themselves. Some approach the stage with additional questions, while others form small groups to debate the issues raised. The conversation about age, cognition, and leadership in our democracy clearly resonates beyond this auditorium, touching on fundamental questions about how we evaluate fitness for office in an aging society. Dr. Bennett can be seen taking notes on the interactions, observing the community's engagement with these critical questions.