The Couch Room: Biden, Clooney, and the Psychology of Presidential Power

Dr. Bennett: "Good evening and welcome to a special edition of The Couch Room. I'm Dr. Marcus Bennett, and tonight we're exploring the psychology of presidential power, decision-making, and the aftermath of the 2024 election. Joining me are former President Joe Biden and actor, director, and political activist George Clooney, who've agreed to have an honest conversation about the events leading up to President Biden's withdrawal from the race and the subsequent election of Donald Trump."

Dr. Bennett: "Gentlemen, thank you both for being here. This is a unique opportunity to examine not just what happened politically, but the psychological dimensions that influenced those events. Mr. Clooney, you publicly called for President Biden to step aside in a New York Times op-ed last summer. Could you explain what led you to take that unusual step?"

Clooney: "First, thank you for having us, Dr. Bennett. And thank you, Mr. President, for being willing to have this difficult conversation. What led me to write that op-ed was a sense of civic duty. After watching the CNN debate, it became clear to me that something wasn't right. This wasn't the Joe Biden I knew—the passionate, articulate leader who could stand toe-to-toe with anyone. I've known Joe for years, I've raised money for him, I believed in his presidency. But that night, I saw something different, and I felt I couldn't stay silent."

Biden: "You know, George, I've always respected you, even when I disagreed with you. But that debate—it was one bad night. One bad night that's been blown out of proportion. I had the flu, I was jet-lagged from coming back from Europe. Everyone has bad nights."

Clooney: "With all due respect, Mr. President, it wasn't just one night. The signs had been there for months—the shortened schedules, the limited press conferences, the increasing reliance on teleprompters. Many of us saw it but didn't want to say anything. We wanted to believe everything was fine because we respected you and your accomplishments."

Dr. Bennett: "This raises an interesting psychological question about perception versus reality. Mr. President, did you perceive changes in your own cognitive function during this period, or did the external assessments feel disconnected from your internal experience?"

Biden: "Look, I know what I'm capable of. I've been in public life for over 50 years. Have I slowed down some? Sure. Everyone does with age. Do I occasionally stammer or lose my train of thought? Yes, I've done that my whole life—it's called a stutter, something I've dealt with since I was a kid. But my judgment, my decision-making, my understanding of complex issues—that never diminished."

Biden: "I negotiated complex international treaties. I passed the most significant climate legislation in history. I rebuilt our alliances. I handled the pandemic recovery. You don't do those things with diminished capacity."

Clooney: "Joe, nobody's questioning your achievements or your legacy. What we're discussing is whether it was in the best interest of the party—and the country—for you to step aside earlier, to allow for a proper process to select the strongest possible candidate."

Dr. Bennett: "There seems to be a tension here between individual assessment and collective assessment. Mr. President, were there people in your inner circle—family, close advisors—who were expressing concerns about your candidacy?"

Biden: "I had discussions with my family and trusted advisors. Some had concerns, others believed I was still the best person to defeat Trump. It wasn't a uniform opinion. Ultimately, the decision was mine to make. And remember, I did step aside. I recognized when it was time to pass the torch."

Clooney: "But the timing of that decision is exactly what we're discussing. You stepped aside in late July, leaving Harris with barely three months to build a campaign from scratch. And you endorsed her immediately, closing the door on a primary that might have produced a stronger candidate."

Clooney: "The governors I mentioned to CNN—Whitmer, Beshear, Moore—they had executive experience. They'd won in difficult states. They'd demonstrated they could connect with voters beyond the Democratic base. Harris had none of that, and she inherited a campaign that was already struggling."

Dr. Bennett: "Mr. President, I'd like to explore the psychological aspects of this decision. For someone who has spent their entire adult life in public service, whose identity is deeply intertwined with their political role, stepping aside can feel like more than just a strategic decision—it can feel like giving up a core part of who you are. Was that a factor in your thinking?"

Biden: "Of course there's a personal element to it. I've devoted my life to public service. I believed—still believe—that I understood the challenges facing this country better than anyone. That wasn't about ego; it was about experience. I'd been in the arena. I'd faced Trump before and beaten him."

Biden: "As for Harris, she was my Vice President. We worked side by side for over three years. I saw her capabilities firsthand. The idea that I should have thrown her under the bus to have some sort of free-for-all primary—that wasn't the right thing to do."

Clooney: "But Joe, that's exactly how democracy is supposed to work. Leaders aren't anointed; they earn support through a process. Look at what's happening now—everything you worked for is being dismantled. The climate initiatives, the international agreements, the infrastructure investments—all being reversed. If the goal was to protect your legacy, the outcome has been exactly the opposite."

Dr. Bennett: "Let's talk about the period immediately after you stepped aside, Mr. President. There was a window—brief, but real—when the Democratic Party could have organized a streamlined primary process. Instead, the party rallied around Vice President Harris within hours. What was your thinking during those critical days?"

Biden: "I believed unity was essential. A divisive primary would have weakened whoever emerged as the nominee. We didn't have the luxury of time for an extended contest. And let's be clear—Harris earned nearly 82 million votes in 2024. She came close in several key states. The narrative that she was fundamentally unelectable isn't supported by the facts."

Clooney: "But she lost, Joe. And not just the presidency—Democrats lost the Senate too. The margins in those key states weren't actually that close. And the pattern was clear—governors and candidates with executive experience generally outperformed the top of the ticket."

Clooney: "Look at Shapiro in Pennsylvania, Whitmer in Michigan, Walz in Minnesota—they all ran ahead of Harris because voters trust executive experience. Harris never held an executive position. She never had to make the kind of daily decisions that governors make, that build that muscle memory for leadership."

Dr. Bennett: "This raises an interesting point about different types of experience and how they prepare individuals for leadership. Mr. President, as someone who came to the presidency after decades in the Senate and eight years as Vice President, how do you view the distinction between legislative and executive experience?"

Biden: "There's value in both. I had executive experience from my time as Vice President, working alongside Obama on every major decision. But I also had legislative experience that helped me work with Congress. Different paths can lead to effective leadership."

Biden: "But I want to address this narrative that I somehow didn't recognize my own limitations. That's simply not true. I have good days and bad days like anyone. The debate was a bad day. But my daily functioning in the job—meeting with world leaders, making complex decisions, working through detailed policy papers—none of that was compromised."

Clooney: "Joe, with respect, there's a reason your public appearances were increasingly limited and scripted. There's a reason press conferences became rare events. Your staff was protecting you—and by extension, protecting the country. I understand why they did it, but it created a situation where the American people weren't seeing the full picture."

Clooney: "The Joe Biden who defeated Trump in 2020 wasn't the same Joe Biden who was running in 2024. That's not a criticism; it's simply a reality of aging. The issue is that the campaign tried to pretend nothing had changed, and voters saw through it."

Dr. Bennett: "Let's talk about public perception versus internal reality. Mr. President, recent reporting suggests that even within your administration, there were significant accommodations being made—shortened workdays, simplified briefing materials, increased reliance on staff decision-making. Were you aware of these adjustments at the time?"

Biden: "Some of these reports are simply false. Others exaggerate normal adaptations that any administration makes over time as it finds its rhythm. Did we streamline processes? Of course. That's efficiency, not accommodation. Did I delegate responsibilities to qualified staff? Absolutely. That's good management, not diminished capacity."

Biden: "And let's be clear about something else—I'm here now, having this conversation, engaging with these difficult questions. Does that seem like someone with significant cognitive impairment?"

Clooney: "Joe, nobody is saying you have dementia or anything close to it. What we're talking about is more subtle than that. It's about stamina, processing speed, the ability to handle multiple complex issues simultaneously—qualities that are crucial for the most demanding job in the world."

Clooney: "And it's about electability. Politics can be cruel that way. The perception becomes reality. Once voters started questioning your fitness, that bell couldn't be unrung."

Dr. Bennett: "Mr. President, during your term and campaign, there were numerous instances of speech patterns that raised concerns—trailing off mid-sentence, losing track of thoughts, mixing up names or details. These became increasingly frequent in your final year in office. How do you respond to the analysis of these patterns as potential indicators of cognitive change?"

Biden: "I've been a gaffe machine my entire career. Go back and look at clips from the '80s or '90s—you'll find plenty of examples of me misspeaking or fumbling words. That's not new. What's new is the level of scrutiny and the willingness to turn every verbal slip into evidence of decline."

Biden: "And let me say something about the stutter—it's easy for people who've never dealt with it to misunderstand what happens. When I'm tired or under pressure, I sometimes have to work around words I might stumble on. That can make my speech pattern seem disjointed when really I'm just navigating around verbal obstacles."

Clooney: "I understand that, Joe. But the patterns changed. The frequency increased. The recovery became more difficult. These weren't isolated incidents; they were part of a pattern that was becoming increasingly obvious to anyone paying attention."

Clooney: "My concern wasn't just about winning the election—though that was certainly part of it. It was about governance. About having a president who could effectively stand up to both domestic and foreign adversaries. Trump is dismantling democracy brick by brick, and we needed our strongest possible candidate to prevent that."

Dr. Bennett: "Let's focus on the present and future. Mr. President, you've recently begun speaking out more publicly, particularly on issues like Social Security. How do you see your role now in American politics, especially as you watch many of your achievements being reversed?"

Biden: "I still have a voice, and I intend to use it. When I see Social Security threatened, when I see alliances being abandoned, when I see the climate crisis being ignored—I have an obligation to speak out. Not as a partisan figure, but as someone who cares deeply about this country and its future."

Biden: "As for my legacy—yes, it's painful to watch much of our work being undone. But that's the nature of democracy. The pendulum swings. The progress we made—on climate, on healthcare, on infrastructure—that created a foundation that will endure, even if there are temporary setbacks."

Clooney: "I respect that perspective, Joe. But I think there's something more fundamental that needs to happen. The Democratic Party is in disarray right now, searching for direction. Your voice carries enormous weight. You have an opportunity—I'd say a responsibility—to help the party learn from what happened."

Clooney: "That means acknowledging that mistakes were made—not just by you, but by the entire Democratic establishment. It means being honest about the challenges of aging in public office. It means clearing the path for new leadership that can effectively counter Trump and his movement."

Clooney: "And it means directly addressing Trump's lies and distortions in a way that cuts through. Not with the diplomatic language of a president, but with the clarity and force of someone who no longer has to worry about the protocols of office."

Dr. Bennett: "As we conclude this conversation, I'd like to ask each of you to reflect on the psychological lessons here—not just for political leaders, but for all of us as we navigate aging, self-perception, and the challenge of knowing when to step aside from roles we've held for a long time."

Biden: "I've learned that perception matters in politics, sometimes more than reality. I still believe I was mentally and physically capable of serving another term. But I've also learned that there comes a time when the best service you can provide is to create space for new leadership."

Biden: "I don't regret my presidency or the decision to run again. I regret that we weren't able to make a stronger case to the American people about what was at stake. But I accept the outcome, and I'm focused now on how I can continue to serve in different ways."

Clooney: "I've learned about the difficulty of speaking hard truths to people you respect and admire. That op-ed wasn't easy to write. I knew it would hurt someone I consider a friend. But sometimes friendship means being willing to say what others won't."

Clooney: "Going forward, I hope we can build a Democratic Party that's more open to honest internal debate, more strategic about candidate selection, and more focused on developing a deep bench of leaders with the executive experience voters clearly value."

Clooney: "And Joe, I hope you'll consider being even more direct in addressing what happened. The party—and the country—needs that clarity to move forward effectively."

Dr. Bennett: "Thank you both for this candid and important conversation. The psychological dynamics we've discussed tonight—from cognitive self-assessment to legacy concerns to the challenges of succession planning—these are universal human experiences, though rarely played out on such a public stage."

Dr. Bennett: "What's clear is that whatever disagreements exist about specific decisions, both of you share a profound commitment to the country's wellbeing and to the democratic values now under threat. Finding a way to translate that shared commitment into effective action may be the most important challenge ahead."