The Couch Room: Bernie Sanders & Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Democratic Party's Future

Dr. Bennett: "Good evening and welcome to this special live edition of The Couch Room. I'm Dr. Marcus Bennett. Tonight, we're exploring the psychology of political movements and the future of progressive politics in America with two of the most influential voices on the left. Senator Bernie Sanders has transformed American politics over the last decade, bringing democratic socialism into the mainstream and inspiring millions of Americans. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has quickly become one of the most recognizable and powerful voices in Congress since her stunning 2018 victory. Thank you both for joining us tonight."

Bernie: "Thank you, Dr. Bennett. It's good to be here with you and Alexandria and this incredible audience."

AOC: "Thank you for having us. I'm excited to have this conversation with everyone here tonight."

Dr. Bennett: "You've both been drawing massive crowds across the country with your 'Fighting Oligarchy' tour. Recent polls show Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez has surged to become a frontrunner for the 2028 Democratic presidential nomination. Let's begin by discussing your core message. Congresswoman, what would you say is the central thesis of your nationwide tour?"

AOC: "The message is simple but urgent: America is at a crossroads between oligarchy and democracy. We're witnessing an extreme concentration of power, greed, and corruption taking over our country like never before. Billionaires like Elon Musk aren't just influencing our government—they're literally running it now. They have one central economic mission: to make billionaires richer at the expense of working Americans."

AOC: "The first actions of this administration make that clear—cutting Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security, firing federal workers, and abandoning our veterans to hand that money off to their donors. But we believe a better world is possible, and we're willing to do something about it."

Dr. Bennett: "Senator Sanders, would you add anything to that?"

Bernie: "Yes. What we're saying is that in this pivotal moment in American history, we have to understand what oligarchy means. It's not just about the incredible economic power that billionaires have, which is unprecedented. It's not just about massive income and wealth inequality. It's about political power."

Bernie: "Elon Musk himself put $270 million to elect Donald Trump as president, and his reward was to become the most powerful person in the United States government. One man owns more wealth than the bottom 50% of American households combined, and he's now dictating government policy. This is not what democracy looks like."

Bernie: "And we're not going to allow Trump and his billionaire friends to get away with that. We're not going to allow them to cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. We're not going to allow them to destroy the Veterans Administration. We're going to stand together and fight back against this oligarchy."

Dr. Bennett: "Let's talk about the specifics of what you're fighting against. What concrete policies from the current administration are you most concerned about?"

AOC: "Just this week, Republicans in Congress voted to advance cuts on hundreds of billions of dollars from Medicaid and veterans benefits. Their budget plan includes $880 billion in cuts from Medicaid to pay for $1.1 trillion in tax breaks for the top 1%. This while Musk is slashing the Social Security Administration, making it harder for elderly and disabled people to get benefits they've paid into their whole lives."

AOC: "They're also targeting immigrants, our LGBTQ+ neighbors, and educators who are simply teaching accurate history. We're watching as people—U.S. citizens and immigrants alike—are being disappeared off the streets by men in vans with no uniform. This is what authoritarianism looks like, and we need to call it what it is."

Dr. Bennett: "You've both been critical of the Democratic Party as well. Congresswoman, you've suggested Democrats need to fight harder for working people. How exactly does your vision differ from mainstream Democrats?"

AOC: "Democrats have to decide whether they stand with working people or with corporate interests. For too long, many in our party have been unwilling to directly challenge the power of billionaires and corporations because they depend on their campaign donations. We need Democrats who know how to stand for the working class and aren't afraid to name our enemies."

AOC: "What's exciting is that we're seeing more and more Democrats realize that when we fight for working people boldly and unapologetically, we win. The people are ready for a party that actually delivers on healthcare, living wages, affordable housing, and climate action—not just talking points."

Bernie: "Let me add to that. It is not only Musk and the Republicans who are putting huge amounts of money to make sure they elect the candidates of their choice—it is Democrats as well. And there is a reason why Democrats for so many years have not had the courage to stand up to the ruling class and represent working people: that party is dominated by corporate interests."

Bernie: "We need public funding of elections and to overturn the disastrous Citizens United Supreme Court decision. Until we get big money out of politics, neither party will truly represent the needs of working Americans."

Dr. Bennett: "Given these criticisms of the Democratic Party, Congresswoman, there are questions about your political identity. Are you really a Democrat? Or is there something else emerging here?"

AOC: "I am absolutely a Democrat, but I'm fighting for a Democratic Party that lives up to its name—that truly represents the people, not just the wealthy and powerful. This isn't about partisan labels or purity tests; it's about class solidarity. It's about standing together and saying our lives deserve dignity and our work deserves respect."

AOC: "The thousands showing up at our rallies aren't coming because they love politicians—they're coming because they're tired of a system that doesn't work for them. They want representatives who will fight for Medicare for All, for a Green New Deal, for living wages—policies that would materially improve their lives."

Dr. Bennett: "Some have suggested your tour resembles the beginning of a presidential campaign. Senator Sanders, do you see Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez's recent surge in the polls as an indication that she might be carrying your movement forward into 2028?"

Bernie: "What we're doing is not about elections or individuals. It's about organizing people in a very, very difficult moment in American history. All of us have got to get outside of our comfort zone. We have got to do tomorrow what we hesitated to do yesterday."

Bernie: "Alexandria has been a tremendous leader in this fight. She came from a working-class background, worked as a waitress, and took on one of the most powerful Democrats in Congress—and she won. She represents the kind of courage and clarity we need right now. But this movement is bigger than any one of us."

AOC: "We're focused on the immediate fight against the oligarchy we're facing right now. This tour is about building a movement to combat the extreme threats to our democracy and economy happening in real-time. We're going to places like Idaho—which many consider deep red—and finding 12,000 people who show up because they're fed up with corruption and want a government that works for all people. That's what this is about."

Dr. Bennett: "Let's turn to some audience questions. Yes, the gentleman in the blue shirt."

Audience Member 1: "Thank you. My question is for both of you. Some people say your rhetoric about billionaires and oligarchy is divisive. Aren't you just creating more polarization when we need unity?"

AOC: "This isn't about division—it's about naming reality. We didn't create the division—extreme wealth inequality did. When one man owns more than the bottom half of Americans combined, that's already division. We're not dividing people; we're uniting working people across all backgrounds to stand up for their shared interests."

AOC: "The real division being sown is when politicians use race, identity, and culture to distract us while they rob us blind. We're trying to cut through that distraction and focus on the economic issues that affect all of us."

Bernie: "The ruling class of this country wants you to believe that you are powerless—that they've got all the money, they own the media, they own the economy, they own the political process, and you've got nothing. But when we stand together, there is nothing we cannot accomplish. We're not creating division—we're creating solidarity."

Dr. Bennett: "Next question, from the woman in the red jacket."

Audience Member 2: "You've both been critical of dark money in politics. But aren't progressives also raising millions through ActBlue and other platforms? How is your fundraising different?"

AOC: "There's a fundamental difference between grassroots fundraising and dark money. When our campaign is powered by thousands of small-dollar donations from working people giving what they can, that's democracy in action. When a handful of billionaires can pour unlimited funds to shape elections and policy, that's oligarchy."

AOC: "I've never taken corporate PAC money, and I never will. That freedom allows me to fight for policies that benefit working people rather than special interests. It's why I can stand up and say we need Medicare for All, even when the health insurance industry is spending millions to prevent it."

Bernie: "In 2020, our average contribution was $18. We had more contributions from more Americans than any candidate in American history. That is fundamentally different from a system where one billionaire can spend hundreds of millions to elect a candidate who will do their bidding."

Bernie: "We need to move to public funding of elections so that all candidates can compete on a level playing field. The day will come when people run for office based on ideas and a record, not on the ability to raise money from the wealthy and powerful."

Dr. Bennett: "Another question, from the gentleman in the back."

Audience Member 3: "Your tour has been attracting huge crowds, even in conservative states. But are you concerned that you're appealing mainly to progressive voters while alienating moderates and independents that Democrats need to win nationally?"

AOC: "What we're seeing at these rallies defies the conventional political categories. In Idaho, a deeply conservative state, we had 12,000 people show up. In Salt Lake City, another Republican state, we had 20,000. These aren't just progressives—they're Republicans, independents, and people who haven't been politically engaged before."

AOC: "They're coming because the issues we're talking about—affordable healthcare, living wages, taking on corruption—transcend traditional political divides. These are kitchen table issues that affect everyone, regardless of party."

Bernie: "You know, I don't accept this blue state, red state nonsense. We are one people. We are the United States of America, not red states, not blue states. The issues we're talking about—healthcare for all, living wages, taking on the billionaire class—these are not radical ideas. They are supported by the vast majority of the American people, including many Republicans."

Bernie: "The problem is that the political system, dominated by big money, doesn't respond to what ordinary Americans want. The establishment wants to put us in these boxes, but when we talk directly to people about the issues that matter in their lives, we find enormous support across the political spectrum."

Dr. Bennett: "Let's talk about your vision for the future. What concrete policies are you advocating for?"

AOC: "We need guaranteed healthcare for every American through Medicare for All. We need living wages that allow people to live with dignity. We need to tackle the climate crisis while creating millions of good union jobs. We need to make public colleges tuition-free and cancel student debt. We need housing that people can actually afford."

AOC: "These aren't radical ideas—they're the foundation of a society where everyone can thrive, not just survive. And they're policies that would materially improve the lives of the vast majority of Americans."

Bernie: "In 1944, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt said something profound that gets overlooked. He said we have a great Constitution—freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion—but we're lacking something: the understanding that economic rights are human rights."

Bernie: "In the richest country in the history of the world, everyone should have a decent standard of living—healthcare, housing, education, dignified retirement. That's what we're fighting for. We're the wealthiest country in the history of the world—we can afford to make sure no one in America is sleeping on the street, that no one goes bankrupt because they got sick, that no child goes hungry."

Dr. Bennett: "Final question from our audience, from the woman in the front row."

Audience Member 4: "If you're successful in building this movement, what's the endgame? Are you planning to transform the Democratic Party from within, or is this the beginning of something new?"

AOC: "Our goal is to build power for working people, wherever that leads. Right now, we're focusing on building a movement that can stand up to the immediate threats we face. But we're also looking beyond the horizon to create lasting change."

AOC: "That means organizing at every level—from school boards to city councils to Congress—and electing people who will actually fight for working families. The Democratic Party can be that vehicle if it truly embraces the needs of working people. That's the shift we're trying to create."

Bernie: "This is not about personalities or even about political parties. It is about creating a movement of millions of Americans who are prepared to stand up and fight for economic, social, racial, and environmental justice."

Bernie: "The Democratic Party has often been too timid, too beholden to big money interests. We need to transform it into a party that truly represents working people. But more importantly, we need to transform our country into one that works for all of us, not just the few."

Bernie: "And that transformation will not happen from the top down. It will happen from the bottom up, when millions of people stand together and say, 'Enough is enough. This country belongs to all of us, not just the billionaire class.'"

Dr. Bennett: "That's a powerful vision. One last question from me: Congresswoman, the recent polls showing you as a frontrunner for 2028 must be surprising. How do you respond to that surge in support?"

AOC: "I'm focused on the work we need to do right now—fighting the immediate threats to our democracy and building a movement that can create real change. The support we're seeing isn't about me—it's about the hunger for a politics that actually addresses the needs of working people."

AOC: "From the waitress who's making $2.13 an hour plus tips to the teacher working multiple jobs to the family facing eviction because rent is too high—these are the people we're fighting for. And if they see this movement as their voice, that's what matters most."

Bernie: "I just want to add one thing. When Alexandria first came to Congress, many in the establishment dismissed her. They said she was too young, too inexperienced, too radical. But she has proven them wrong every step of the way. She has become one of the most effective and powerful voices for working people in Congress."

Bernie: "That doesn't mean she or anyone else is going to run for president in 2028. It means that the American people are hungry for authentic leadership that actually addresses their needs. And that's what this movement is all about."

Dr. Bennett: "Thank you both for this remarkable conversation. As we can see from the enthusiasm in this room and at your rallies across the country, there's clearly a hunger for the message you're bringing. Whether this movement ultimately reshapes the Democratic Party or leads to something new remains to be seen, but it's certainly a political force to be reckoned with."